Curse

kaya · Mar 02, 2006, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

And the same four people whinning about how we have enough, in a thread that apparently dosn't matter to them dosn't prove they are wrong.

i'm not whinning about how we have enough... i'm whinning about the whinners

... wait ... that's a little odd

i think my points been made anyway. /walks out

arafeandur · Mar 02, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

So. Get Factions. Install and load up as a standalone. Create 4 characters of whatever type strikes your fancy. Quit.

Now, load up Prophecies. Use the 'add a key to your account' bit. What happens to 2 of the 4 chars from Factions??

Ah, nevermind. I bet that you can only add a key to your account if it has NO characters on it. What a crock.

Loviatar · Mar 02, 2006, 12:31 AM // 00:31

one little detail most of the complainers are missing is that while Anet makes the game NCsoft (the PUBLISHER) will be making the marketing decisions on little things like the number of slots.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Mar 02, 2006, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Yeah but it is the same 10 people arguing, it isnt 16 pages of different people, its the same people. Same ones saying they will never play again but hanging around the forum instead of looking for the new game that gives them the "freedom "they want.

in the hopes anet will change its stance by eithe rbumping prophecies up in charslots or by making available a key to expand the number of charslots while waiting for the alternatives to come out.

And kaya, you don't pay for a gift... so you can't look it in the mouth...

EternalTempest · Mar 02, 2006, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Ack

Everyone was worried about having only 1 slot more (only thing they would commit too) now they up it to 2... now We don't have 8 slots arugment pop up....

For existing C1 chracters, you can make both new jobs when you add factions to your account.

For C2 only users, you have 4 slots for 8 jobs which is close to the 4 slots for 6 jpbs we have now and an incentive to go out and buy c1 - $40 for two slots if you don't plan to do anything with C1.

I'm sure that Anet decided this between a balance of what players want (I've not seen anyone aruge against more slots) with the fact to keep this game free (no montly cost) they can't give us the world.

I work out of 2 slots (share account with wife) and between the two of us have over 836 hours...

For my 2 cents, I'm happy with two slots, yes I want more but it's NOT going to stop me from getting the CE version of factions.

There releasing a game every 6 months, think if they give you 8 slots with C1 and C2 now, how many slots would you demand when c3 comes out (which started dev in Nov btw). That would be give 4 slots per game that keeps "adding" after a while that going to get expensive on there end.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Mar 02, 2006, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

There releasing a game every 6 months, think if they give you 8 slots with C1 and C2 now, how many slots would you demand when c3 comes out (which started dev in Nov btw).

as many slots as there are new primary characters compred with the previous chapter and if they are able to do so 1 more as dedicated pvp slot only, but I could manage without it.

Katari · Mar 02, 2006, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by EternalTempest

Everyone was worried about having only 1 slot more (only thing they would commit too) now they up it to 2... now We don't have 8 slots arugment pop up....

That old thread was really mis-titled. As it evolved past page two, the entire debate was almost exactly the same as this thread.

Ensabah Nur · Mar 02, 2006, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by EternalTempest

I'm sure that Anet decided this between a balance of what players want (I've not seen anyone aruge against more slots) with the fact to keep this game free (no montly cost) they can't give us the world.

From what I've read the majority of us asking for 8 total slots combined are not asking for "the world" we're just asking to receive what we would be paying for. From what I've read all we are asking for is the ability to play as each primary without deleting any invested character in 100% of the game realm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EternalTempest

I work out of 2 slots (share account with wife) and between the two of us have over 836 hours....

Are you aware that by doing that, you are in violation of the EULA? Partly why in my house we have 4 GWP accounts for the 4 people that play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EternalTempest

There releasing a game every 6 months, think if they give you 8 slots with C1 and C2 now, how many slots would you demand when c3 comes out (which started dev in Nov btw). That would be give 4 slots per game that keeps "adding" after a while that going to get expensive on there end.

First off, We are not "demanding" we are requesting with enthusiasm and our request is not unreasonable. From what I've read all we are requesting is 1 character slot for each primary offered, no more but no less either. We aren't asking to set a precendence or for 4 character slots with each Chapter(expansion), merely asking for the ability to play 1 of each primary character class through 100% of game content. Far too many of the people posting against 8 total slots combined have stated they are happy with Anets decision, fine that works for you,cool. It doesn't work for us that are asking for 8, why do the "happy" people have a problem with us asking for 8? Also far far too many of the people posting against 8 total slots combined are using straw man arguments that couldn't hold water in the middle of the Pacific. While from what I've read for the most part the arguments for 8 total slots combined are well thought out and backed by logic and/or facts. If you're "happy with Anets decision , hey ,great for you, go be happy. Some of us want to be happy with Guild Wars and Anet too, but for that to happen we want to be able to play 100% of the GW realm with 1 of each primary profession.

Having said all that I'll leave ya'll with these quotes:

"Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning." - Bill Gates

"It takes years to build loyal customers, only seconds to lose them forever."-Unknown

drowningfish999 · Mar 02, 2006, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur

Are you aware that by doing that, you are in violation of the EULA? Partly why in my house we have 4 GWP accounts for the 4 people that play.

Quote me if I'm wrong, but I don't think sharing is game with a family member is against the EULA, since its private personal use. It'd be different if he were sharing it with 4 people that didn't live with him, but sinces hes sharing it with a family member of the same household, im pretty sure thats ok.

LaserLight · Mar 02, 2006, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Quote:

why do the "happy" people have a problem with us asking for 8?

Because the unhappy people seem to have a problem with the happy people being happy.

What you people are doing is asking for something you know full well you are not recieving and using Anet's preset disapproval of your request to become angry. And you personally, Ensabah, have called every single individual buying Factions a witless corporate dog with no sense of taste or discernment, if not in so many words, then through your repeated statements that people buying Factions are just mindlessly following Anet's marketing policy.

Ya know what, folks? I ain't buying slots. Anet isn't stealing jack from me. Would I like a slot for each primary profession and a PvP slot? Sure! Would I leave the game if I got more? No! But why is it bad for me to like what is actually being offered? You guys say you want to be happy with Anet and Guild Wars? Then do it. Currently the attitude seems to be that Factions is two extra slots which just so happens to have a game attached to it, but because that primary content isn't what you want it to be, you're done.

Fine. Be done. Be done and please stop posting on how the people who aren't done are stupid. Perhaps there's no hard logic about why we should be grateful to get new content despite slots, but Gates and Unknown aside, there is such a thing as supporting what you think is good. If you people cannot see past the log-in screen and determine whether Anet is doing its job or not based solely/primarily on how many primaries you get, fine.

I don't. Half the people in this thread don't. Why are we mutants for not thinking that way?

Mandy Memory · Mar 02, 2006, 05:04 AM // 05:04

If you guys got 8 slots, you would want 10...because not combining the accounts would give you 8...after you get 10 you would want 12....

...you give a mouse a cookie....

Lady Lozza · Mar 02, 2006, 05:05 AM // 05:05

I have absolutely no problem people asking for 8 character slots. I just don't understand why they don't realise they can get this by having two accounts.

Mordakai · Mar 02, 2006, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

I've carefully explained why would be a good idea to give more flexibility and why it wouldn't affect the economy, the GW business model, the casual players and the hardcore/chinese farmers. I'm still waiting for consistent counter arguments in favor of the current slot system. So far, I see a lot of bitching, name calling, melodrama, and incredibly hypocritical straw men, but few interesting arguments. That's why this is probably my last post on this topic unless somebody has a new relevant argument. May be someone will be patient enough to (re)read this thread and to explain how account merging, buyable slots or 'trial/experimental' slots would hurt the game or the environment.

First of, thanks for your reasoned arguments. You're quite right of course, I'd be happy with more slots, and now that I understand your PvP template concept better, I'm all for it.

Of course, no one can rationally explain the real reason Anet chose to limit slots on merged accounts, only Anet knows for sure. All we can do is guess.

[shrug] The thing is, I doubt Anet will actually lose many people over this, and I don't think they'll increase the number of "core"
slots until they need to inflate sagging sales at some later date. But by then, I'd guess it'd be too late already.

Oh well, I'm tired and not really adding anything. Good night all!

rollntider · Mar 02, 2006, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

When my W/Mo goes and heals as well as a primary monk, or when my Mo/W out-tanks a warrior, then that argument will make sense.

Ok so you dont get a chance to get every skill then and miss some of the game? Or did I miss something here?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

Because 8 slots would let you play 100% of the game. It is not an arbitary value.

Actually using your own logic thats wrong. You would need a slot for each primary with each secondary profession. So you would need 5 warriors with each of the secondary professions, 5 monks with each of the secondary professions, 5 rangers etc... you would need 30 slots for each primary to have the secondary skills, then that would be 100%. Cause then if you got 8 , you would only have 26% of the game. To have a true 100%, you would need every primary, with every secondary skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

If you're going to compaire GW to other games, how about this: In D2 you could have as many accounts as you wished.

Yeah and every warrior looked the same, every necro etc....and it only had one profession.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

Not that I think D2 should be compaired to GW,

Good don't compare them , because I didn't

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

but then neither should SWG, or WoW.

I did these because others were comparing to paying a monthly fee, but if you had bothered to read that then you would have known.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

And the same four people whinning about how we have enough, in a thread that apparently dosn't matter to them dosn't prove they are wrong.

No, it doesn't, it also does not mean it is a major concern for everyone else as some have stated because of the number of pages this thread went. But I guess you missed that point too. Its the same people over and over claiming they are leaving GW to never to return , but still stay and report they are mad about the 2 slots.

rollntider · Mar 02, 2006, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Check this out

Lets say I bought a motorcycle. I enjoyed this motorcycle. I rode this cycle every day and enjoyed it. Then the cycle company decided to offer me a sidecar for my bike. Oh joy, Now I can carry my spouse with me. But wait I have 2 children.
I can:
A) accept the side car as is because it would allow me and my spouse to ride it when the children are away at school. or allow a friend to ride with me
B) Ask if the bike company can make a 3 seat side car, when they say they wont, I can pitch a fit and throw the bike away.
C) Purchase an extra bike and side car for my spouse so we both can take a child with us on family outings.
D) ask everyone to throw their bikes away because they did not make a 3 seat sidecar. And call everyone morons who doesnt agree with me. I then sue the bike company because I specifically needed a 3 seat side car, because i am not getting 100% riding satisfaction each time I dont have my whole family with me. After all there is 4 members in my family they all should be able to ride correct? I am paying for 100%, I should get it. Because if each one of us owned our own bike we would get 100%, but with the side car only holding one, they screwed me over. Death to the bike company. Because if you multiply 1/1*23/43+(17-3*2)- 1 = me getting the shaft. See that proves it.

Look you knew what the slots where when you purchased the game, if you didnt know then Anet pwned you. Because you did not bother to research and since they are such dirty crooks, they probably hid it from you. When the hype leading up to the games release they said the game would have 4 slots, 20 level cap, and multiple expansions it was all over the net. They said they would add accordingly to what they percieve as the true GW experiance. Just because someone buys the game and decides you need 6 slots right off the bat might be your interpetation, but they made the game.

They interpet the proper guild wars experiance is prophecies is a 4 slot core game. Hell they made it, thats the way it is. Factions is a 4 slot game, merged is 6 slots but with more spells, then so be it. I would love for unlimited slots, why cant I have every character combo known to man with each armor set, each secondary profession, each PVP character with each secondary etc. Why cant I have a hammer warrior with each secondary, a axe warrior with each secondary? How about one of each of the sword types warrior with each secondary. I really want to specialize and I aint getting 100% man.

Gli · Mar 02, 2006, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Please refer me to a logical answer the GW people have given us. I haven't seen or heard one yet. I'm not kidding, I really haven't. I've only seen the 6*100 > 8*50 irrelevancy.

I'm still waiting.

And meanwhile, I arrived at an amazing new conclusion. Using classic calculus paired with cutting edge contemporary mathematics, suffering through many a sleepless night, often tearing up my notes in impotent frustration, I finally arrived at the following:

8*100% > 6*100%

QED. Eight slots are better than 6.

Seriously, here's a link I've been meaning to share with some of you people for a while.

http://www.iep.utm.edu/f/fallacies.htm

Click it, read it from top to bottom, and then try to make your points again. It'll be refreshing to read some counterargument posts by people who can string 2 sentences together without veering off into the nonsensical.

TheLordOfBlah · Mar 02, 2006, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollntider

Check this out

Lets say I bought a motorcycle. I enjoyed this motorcycle. I rode this cycle every day and enjoyed it. Then the cycle company decided to offer me a sidecar for my bike. Oh joy, Now I can carry my spouse with me. But wait I have 2 children.
I can:
A) accept the side car as is because it would allow me and my spouse to ride it when the children are away at school. or allow a friend to ride with me
B) Ask if the bike company can make a 3 seat side car, when they say they wont, I can pitch a fit and throw the bike away.
C) Purchase an extra bike and side car for my spouse so we both can take a child with us on family outings.
D) ask everyone to throw their bikes away because they did not make a 3 seat sidecar. And call everyone morons who doesnt agree with me. I then sue the bike company because I specifically needed a 3 seat side car, because i am not getting 100% riding satisfaction each time I dont have my whole family with me. After all there is 4 members in my family they all should be able to ride correct? I am paying for 100%, I should get it. Because if each one of us owned our own bike we would get 100%, but with the side car only holding one, they screwed me over. Death to the bike company. Because if you multiply 1/1*23/43+(17-3*2)- 1 = me getting the shaft. See that proves it.

Look you knew what the slots where when you purchased the game, if you didnt know then Anet pwned you. Because you did not bother to research and since they are such dirty crooks, they probably hid it from you. When the hype leading up to the games release they said the game would have 4 slots, 20 level cap, and multiple expansions it was all over the net. They said they would add accordingly to what they percieve as the true GW experiance. Just because someone buys the game and decides you need 6 slots right off the bat might be your interpetation, but they made the game.

They interpet the proper guild wars experiance is prophecies is a 4 slot core game. Hell they made it, thats the way it is. Factions is a 4 slot game, merged is 6 slots but with more spells, then so be it. I would love for unlimited slots, why cant I have every character combo known to man with each armor set, each secondary profession, each PVP character with each secondary etc. Why cant I have a hammer warrior with each secondary, a axe warrior with each secondary? How about one of each of the sword types warrior with each secondary. I really want to specialize and I aint getting 100% man.

I liked the comparison, good explanation.

Renegade ++RIP++ · Mar 02, 2006, 09:32 AM // 09:32

roll that ain't a correct comparison

its more like:

A) buy 1 motorcycle with 2 sitplaces
B) buy another motorcycle with 2 sitplaces since you can't use a sidecar stand alone...
c) Now you can chose to either ride them seperately and have 4 sitplaces or link them together and get 3 sitplaces.
D) we are requesting in stead of making that linking cost our sitplaces to actually at least give us the number of seats you take away or make the linkingprocess not cost us the seats on the back of the motor by adding either a little sidecar in the middle or easier shaping the linking so that it doesn't obstruct the 2 links. That would be smart design and appreciative of customer satisfaction.

Arduin · Mar 02, 2006, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollntider

Actually using your own logic thats wrong. You would need a slot for each primary with each secondary profession. So you would need 5 warriors with each of the secondary professions, 5 monks with each of the secondary professions, 5 rangers etc... you would need 30 slots for each primary to have the secondary skills, then that would be 100%. Cause then if you got 8 , you would only have 26% of the game. To have a true 100%, you would need every primary, with every secondary skill.

What about changing your secondary after you've ascended? You only need one Warrior to unlock all skills from the other 5 professions, instead of 5 Warriors

Of course, you won't be able to play the part before the desert with the other secondaries, although some new quests will come available, but you can surely obtain their skills.

Peewee · Mar 02, 2006, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by seut

4slots chapter1 stand alone + 4slots chapter2 stand alone = 6slots combined install

full price chapter1 + full price chapter2 = 6/8 benefit
wasn't the first law of marketing: keep your EXISTING customers happy?

Wasnt the Law of MMOs make players pay thro the nose?

I think its a good idea. I am primarily a pvp player, but i have 3 pve characters, and 1 slot for pvp. I dont actually need another 4 slots, 2 will just be fine. Essentially, older players are getting 2 slots, and 2 professions. New players are getting 4 slots and 8 new proffesions. Which one is going to have a hard time deciding what proffesion to make?

ANET are practically forcing older players to link the packages, therefore cutting the amount of slots they get. Doesnt reall bother me, and at least they give you the choice. Either you get 2 accounts, in GW, and another in GWF, or you get 1 account, in both areas, but with less slots. I know which i will take.